Present:
Martin Forde KC, Advisory Panel Chair
Roy Wilsher, His Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services
Alasdair (Ali) Hay, Independent Operational Assurance Advisor
Kate Herbert, Local Government Association
Paul Bamford, LFB Community Forum
Willie Thompson, Community representative
Gareth Beeton, FBU,
Sharon Warner, GMB
Sarah Gawley, Home Office
Ross Neal, Unison
Abdurahman Sayed, Community representative
In Attendance:
Andy Roe - LFB Commissioner
Jonathan Smith - LFB Deputy Commissioner and Operational Director for Preparedness and Response
Jerry Kirkby – LFB Programme Director – Culture Change
Maria Buck – LFB Programme team
Tamsin Crook – LFB Business Change Manager
Basirat Sadudeen – LFB Programme Support Officer
Cliff Morton – LFB Interim Chief HR Officer
Marta Hawkins – LFB Strategic Inclusion Lead
Dan Stern – LFB Commissioner’s Office
Tamer Ozdemir – LFB Commissioner’s Office
The Chair welcomed members to the third meeting of the LFB Advisory Panel and the members of the Panel introduced themselves.
In recognition of the recent death of Firefighter Albert Folivi the Panel observed a minute’s silence.
Michael Williams, Chair of LFB Community Forum represented by Paul Bamford.
Kathryn Billing, CFO Cornwall Fire & Rescue Service
Althea Loderick, Southwark Council
The minutes of the meeting held on 31 January 2024 were agreed as a correct record and the actions noted. It was noted that Chief Fire Officer Kathryn Billing was not on the list of attendees but has since been added.
The Chair referred to the terms of reference and reminded Members of the purpose of Panel which had been set up following the independent Culture Review. The Panel was set up to act as a critical friend and provide constructive challenge to actions the Brigade are taking or proposing to take.
It was agreed to focus on what progress was being made and importantly the measures that indicate this. HMI Wilsher stressed the importance of dealing with inappropriate behaviours and misconduct and proposed that any update on progress and measures should include the action LFB had taken in response to the HMICFRS report into Values and Culture in fire and rescue services in England.
ACTION – Jerry Kirkby – Agenda item at next Panel meeting to cover progress made on the Culture Review recommendations, the HMICFRS Value and Culture recommendations and the measures in place to monitor progress.
Ali Hay asked whether information on budget allocation could be provided to the Panel as in his experience finances demonstrate whether sufficient importance was being given to making improvements in any area.
ACTION – Jerry Kirkby – An update on budget allocation to support the Culture Transformation programme to be given at the next Panel meeting.
The Commissioner presented an update on the Culture Transformation programme and referenced two key milestones which had been reached: the completion of the 29 recommendations from phase 1 of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry and the decision by HMICFRS to remove LFB from the enhanced monitoring process known as ‘Engage’. The Commissioner stated it reflected the considerable work being done by colleagues in the Brigade to make improvements. However, he stressed that he and senior leaders were not complacent and saw this as the end of the beginning of the transformation that LFB needed to undergo and recognised that further work was required.
The Commissioner updated the Panel on the work of the Professional Standards Unit (PSU). The number of contacts by staff to the PSU over the first 100 days indicate that there is a level of trust and confidence in the Unit and the procedures put in place to deal with inappropriate behaviour. He emphasised the importance of this Unit and the need to deal effectively and in a timely manner with misconduct. He updated that additional staff had been allocated to support this happening.
Training had been provided for managers who chair misconduct hearings and considerable progress had been made in addressing the backlog of cases and holding hearings. The Panel emphasised the importance of having consistency in the outcomes of hearings. The Chair expressed an interest in hearings and understanding better how they were operated. He raised whether there was the potential to observe one.
ACTION – Jerry Kirkby – To explore whether the Chair could observe a hearing.
The latest results from the YouGov public survey held in March 2024 were given to the Panel which showed a return to the levels of public trust and confidence that were reported prior to the publication of the independent Culture Review.
The Commissioner referenced the results of a staff survey conducted as part of HMICFRS thematic inspection regarding misconduct handling in fire and rescue services in England. The survey was conducted in November and December 2023. Although the Brigade was not inspected as part of this process, LFB staff were given the opportunity to take part in a survey and 9.8% of staff had done so. The results showed staff perceived improvements were being made in the 12 months to December 2023.
The Commissioner reported that LFB were due to be inspected in June 2024 and that phase 2 of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry was scheduled to report in the summer of 2024.
Panel members noted and welcomed that staff were more confident to come forward to report inappropriate behaviour. There was a request that more details should be given at the next Panel meeting regarding the activities of the PSU and the measures put in place to monitor their work.
ACTION – Jerry Kirkby – Agenda item at the next Panel meeting on Misconduct Handling and measures.
There was a discussion about staff who persistently demonstrated poor behaviour, but it was assessed that this behaviour did not meet the threshold for misconduct. Panel members stated that patterns of behaviour were important and thorough processes needed to be put in place regarding recruitment and transferees with background checks and vetting. HMI Wilsher suggested that there was potential learning from other organisations including the police and proposed LFB colleagues from the PSU meet with HMICFRS team that deal with police integrity issues.
ACTION – Jerry Kirkby – To arrange for LFB PSU staff to meet with HMICFRS police integrity team.
The importance of ensuring leaders were confident to deal with cases of inappropriate behaviour and misconduct was discussed. The Commissioner outlined the investment that the Brigade had made in leadership training. He recognised the need for leaders to be able to hold challenging conversations with staff and that leadership training had been prioritised to provide this.
Cliff Morton, the interim Chief HR Officer, introduced the agenda item stating that the views, support and challenge of the Panel was sought. The ‘Your London Fire Brigade plan for 2023 – 29’ included the aim to have a workforce that was reflective of London. He stated that the current assessment was that it was unlikely to be achieved (by 2029?). This session was proposed to provide Panel members with insight into the data, current modelling and explanation of the challenges being faced, and describe what action was being taken.
Maria Buck, from the Culture Transformation Programme team, and Marta Hawkins, from the Inclusion team, then provided a PowerPoint presentation. The presentation provided a breakdown of data based on gender, ethnicity, disability and LGB for each of the staff groups: operational, support staff (referred to as FRS) and control staff. This demonstrated that there was different representation in each of the groups. The presentation covered both staff composition and pay gap data.
The Panel discussed matters relating to recruitment, retention, promotion and some of the barriers to progression, and the available opportunities.
The Panel acknowledged the challenges in the way people flow through the organisation and ranks. The possibility of opening up entry at a higher level was discussed. The Panel emphasised the importance of increasing the diversity of recruitment, especially in the operational arena, and the difference this would make. The Panel advised that upskilling and training staff on how to move up the ranks would assist. It was recognised that more could be done to provide certain staff with protected characteristics more knowledge and confidence to seek promotion. The importance of having diversity on promotion panels was also raised. The Panel discussed looking into positive actions such as sponsoring schemes and mentoring schemes.
Maria Buck and Marta Hawkins stated they would take the Panel’s feedback into consideration in shaping next steps. The Brigade was in the process of engaging with staff, representative bodies, and Equality Support Groups to develop plans.
Cliff Morton thanked the Panel for their contribution, and it was agreed to bring it back to a future meeting and provide an update on this area.
The Chair expressed his thanks to Maria Buck and Marta Hawkins for their presentation which demonstrated an in-depth knowledge of the subject.
There were no further items of business.
The date of the next meeting is scheduled to take place on Wednesday 26 June 2024.