Minutes of the proceedings of the meeting of LFB Independent Advisory Panel held at London Fire Brigade HQ on Monday 4 November 2024
Present:
Martin Forde KC, Advisory Panel Chair
Kathryn Billing, Chief Fire Officer Cornwall and NFCC Lead for EDI
Alasdair Hay, Independent Operational Assurance Advisor
Kate Herbert, LGA London
Niran Mothada, Executive Director of Communications and Strategy, GLA
Jonathan Smith - LFB Deputy Commissioner and Operational Director for Preparedness and Response
Roy Wilsher, His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services
Jerry Kirkby - LFB Programme Director – Culture Transformation
Tamsin Crook - LFB Change Manager - Culture Transformation
Sarah Gawley, Director, Home Office
Althea Loderick, Chief Executive, Southwark Council
Ross Neal, Unison
Abdurahman Sayed, Community Representative
Adam Shaw, Regional Treasurer, FBU
Willie Thompson, Community representative
Sharon Warner, GMB
The Chair welcomed Members to the sixth meeting of the LFB Advisory Panel and asked the Members to introduce themselves.
Apologies were received from Michael Williams and Andy Roe, Commissioner of LFB.
The minutes of the meeting held on 12 September 2024 were agreed as a correct record and the actions noted.
Jonathon Smith, Deputy Commissioner and Director of Preparedness and Response provided an update on the Grenfell Phase Two report, the LFB Staff Survey and the HMICFRS inspection.
On the Grenfell Phase Two report, he noted that the Advisory Panel had been sent the LFB’s response to the report. He noted that there were 13 recommendations under the London Fire Brigade (LFB) section in the GTI Phase 2 report:
• 5 recommendations are for all Fire and Rescue Services (FRS)
• 3 recommendations are aimed at HMICFRS
• 2 recommendations are for His Majesty’s Government (HMG)
• 1 recommendation is specifically for LFB
• 1 recommendation is for the National Fire Chiefs Council (NFCC)
• 1 recommendation is for the British Standards Institution (BSI)
The Brigade accepted the recommendations, and had provided its position and, where relevant, its progress against each of them in the agenda pack provided to the Panel.
The Brigade had accepted the recommendations aimed at the Brigade and Fire and Rescue Services and highlighted some key points for discussion. He also noted that the Brigade had met all 29 recommendations levelled at the London Fire Brigade following the Phase One report, but has not remained complacent, and in response to the Phase Two report, it conducted a gap analysis to identify the areas to continue to focus on.
On the recommendation for the LFB around the implementation of change, he noted the Brigade’s focus on operational learning and progress in this area, specifically; the Brigade’s introduction of a new bulletin - Operational News Flash - to quickly provide risk-critical information direct to operational staff and the introduction of KPIs to drive the collection of information from hot debriefing (seven days from incident), and from structured debriefing (arranged within 14 days, completed within 56 days).
As part of continuous improvement, a review of the governance and process for operational learning had also commenced which would consider best practice nationally, as well as incorporating further risk and assurance processes. This work was due to conclude in early 2025, and noted that further work was being undertaken with the NFCC Operational Preparedness, Response and Resilience Committee specifically to use best practice across the sector to improve LFB processes.
In response to questions on assurance, he noted that both internal and external assurance processes were in place to scrutinise and evaluate outcomes of these practices. Internal assurance was in the work of the Business Assurance Team and external assurance came from multiple areanas, including the Advisory Panel, Audit Committee, Fire Committee, the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime (MOPAC), and His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services (HMICFRS).
In a response to a question from Sharon Warner on the investment for modern fire fighter programme, the Deputy Commissioner confirmed that the budget submission due on the 22 November included this additional investment required.
Althea Loderick the engagement with water providers, such as Thames Water, particularly around incidents and response. It was noted that Thames Water were a member for the London Resilience Forum, and this area had received significant scrutiny post Grenfell. Furthermore, a memorandum of understanding was being explored between the Brigade and Thames Water. The Brigade had also invested further in bulk media advisors, who advise on the fire ground and liaise with Thames Water. All these, and the fact the Chair of the LRF was the Mayor’s Chief of Staff, pointed to a different operational environment than previously known. While this was an area that would continue to be reviewed, the Deputy Commissioner was confident that there would be improvement.
Niran Mothada, Executive Director of Communications and Strategy, GLA also offered to raise any issues with the Chair of the LRF if required.
The Chair commented on the progress and commitment of senior leadership, but asked how that would be maintained and disseminated. The Deputy Commissioner noted the work to move transformation to organisational improvement and the structures that were now in place, to ensure integration and embedding.
The Deputy Commissioner also commented on the lessons that were learnt from the breathing apparatus project and the work being done to improve confidence in equipment. This included input from MSA senior executives and collaboration with the Fire Brigade’s Union.
Ali Hay asked about the thought given to the strategic enablers and barriers to deliver objectives, such as information communication technology and connectivity issues. The Deputy Commissioner confirmed that all the changes the Brigade were looking to make sat under the umbrella of its strategic plan, the Community Risk Management Plan. A programme approach had been taken and a key programme was modernising services, of which ICT provision were part of.
The Chair asked about the position on and audit of high-rise buildings. The Deputy Commissioner confirmed that the Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner and Operational Director for Prevention, Protection and Operational Policy were currently with Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government of the United Kingdom (MHCLG) lobbying for change and investment.
Moving onto the HMICFRS Inspection, the Deputy Commissioner noted the HMICFRS inspection report was due to be received in the next few weeks and shared some key highlights from the hot debrief received. He said the post inspection debrief indicated progress being made both operationally and culturally, although there was still more to do. The Inspection recognised systematic approach to change and robust governance arrangements and identified no ‘causes of concern’. The full report was due to be published in November 2024 although exact date to be confirmed and would be shared with all Advisory Panel members.
The Deputy Commissioner noted that the LFB staff survey has been launched with a target of 70 per cent response rate. This was the response rate received in the last LFB staff survey. As of 3 November 2024, there was a 39% completion rate, with 30% of operational staff, 45% FRS Support Staff and 50% of Control staff having completed the survey. The survey was due to close on 14 November 2024 with the potential for a one week extension.
The Panel discussed sharing action taken as a result of the last survey and noted that targeted communications and incentives had been used to encourage responses.
ACTION - Jerry Kirkby to share feedback in the form of you said we did with the Panel.
The Chair offered to promote the staff survey and the benefits of completion, reinforcing the fact that views are listened to.
ACTION – Chair to promote the staff survey and the benefits of completion, reinforcing the fact that views are listened to.
Programme Director – Culture Transformation provided an overview of the HMICFRS staff survey which was part of the overarching inspection and took place between April to June 2024. Response rates and insights, including areas for improvement were shared with the Panel and the full report would be shared once it had been published.
ACTION – Jerry Kirkby to circulate the full HMICFRS report to Panel members as soon as the report is published.
It was noted that the HMICFRS staff survey provided an open comment question at the end and on the LFB staff survey, every question had the ability for users to make a comment. AI would be used to review comments and draw out the learning.
In response to a question from Ali Hay on triangulation of the findings, it was noted that there were a number of avenues that contributed to the triangulation of data. These included HMICFRS, staff survey, engagement with Equality Support Groups and Unions and feedback from senior management staff discussions.
Kathryn Billing, Chief Fire Officer Cornwall and NFCC Lead for EDI commented that the good intent and effort of the Brigade was clearly visible, but that there was a mismatch with the perception of the activities undertaken and how these landed with staff, and that a piece of work around listening and acceptance might be required.
The Panel discussed appraisals and promotions and it was noted that an item on promotions, appraisals and talent management would be brought to the next meeting.
ACTION – Jerry Kirkby to add an item on Promotions, appraisals and talent management to the next meeting.
Patrick Goulbourne, the Assistant Commissioner, Operational Resilience and Control, joined the meeting for this agenda item.
Members of the Panel who had visited the London Operations Centre gave their feedback on their recent visit. They welcomed the opportunity provided and requested their appreciation was passed on to the relevant leaders and staff. They found the staff welcoming and open with their feedback.
The Panel Members reported positively on the use and functionality of Good Sam which enables control officers to use, capture and share vital incident footage from the phones of emergency callers. The software also has enhanced translational functionality. The Panel discussed the possible promotion of this functionality more widely to members of the public.
The Panel also commended the proactive work by LOC staff to increase the diversity of the workforce at the London Operations Centre.
Althea Loderick recognised the work that LOC leaders had done with local authorities in promoting careers in the LOC and working with them to attract staff.
The Panel also commented positively on the training experience for control staff who found the programme enriching and the appropriateness and completion of development records.
Sharon Warner commented on the positive feedback from staff on the training and support provided, and how this had been tailored to meet the specific needs of LOC staff and the working arrangements.
The Panel commented on the lack of promotional opportunities available for staff to cross pollinate with other areas of the Brigade. AC Pat Goulbourne noted that there was a desire for control staff to be embedded in other areas of the organisation and a report was programmed for the Brigade’s Service Delivery Board to explore these opportunities.
The challenge of maintaining operational resilience amongst a small number of staff whilst also enabling development opportunities was noted and the Assistant Commissioner commended the staff and the unions for their support in this area, by enabling attendance on non rota days.
Carolina Williams, a PSU Senior Investigator and Dawne Stephenson, the Strategic Organisational Development Manager working in the PSU provided an update on the work of the Unit and highlighted the performance for the month of September in comparison with the previous month. This included the number of contacts made with the PSU and performance against key performance indicators (KPIs).
The update on KPIS indicated that in August 2024 60% of new cases were allocated within the seven working day target and in September 2024 this had reduced to 60%. The target was 95%.
The presentation included data on suspensions, and saw that the number had significantly increased following a review of culture. It was noted that these were largely due to bullying and harassment and particularly cases relating to sexual harassment.
In response to a question on the average duration of suspension, it was noted that some suspensions has been as long as one year, although the normal duration for a suspension would be the length of the case. The reasons for this increased length were noted by the Panel and included lack of engagement from subjects and witnesses, as well as limited resources and whether there was an ongoing police investigation.
The availability of hearing managers also accounted for some delays. Dawne Stephenson stated that further hearing managers were in the process of being trained. It was noted that in LFB only operational staff could preside over an hearing of a operational staff member. This was not the case across all other Fire and Rescue Services where FRS could preside over all staff hearings. It was also noted that in LFB operational staff could preside over hearings for FRS staff.
The Senior Investigator and Strategic Organisational Development Manager commented on the key learning that has and will evolve from the PSU. It was suggested that a piece of work on managing expectations and detailing the process for those that may have to engage with the process, be explored.
It was noted that a calendar of planned information and prevention activities was in place, and included communications and briefings on sexual harassment and domestic abuse to coincide with critical dates or external campaigns.
All panel members had been invited to the Brigade’s carol service and to advise Jerry Kirkby if they had not received their invitation.
The date of the next meeting is to be confirmed but likely to be mid-January 2025.